Transcript
GRANT BAYLDON: This report really paints a tragic picture of what's going on in Nauru. It's a system that's deliberately abusive and secretive and really despair is what comes through so strongly in it. Essentially the island is an open air prison for the refugees and asylum seekers who are there. We've uncovered evidence of shocking levels of physical abuse, sexual abuse, lack of medical attention. But it's really the despair, the mental health issues that are what come through the most strongly and that's what happens when you take away hope for people when they have no idea how long they'll be there or if indeed there'll be any end to what's effectively detention there and that's led to really an epidemic of self harm and of suicide including of children there. And there's some heartbreaking stories that have come out of that.
DON WISEMAN: The information you have is garnered from where? Because one of the issues of course with Nauru, is it's difficult to get people on the island.
GB: That's right, Amnesty Internationals global head of research was able to visit around I think a couple of months back. And she was able to get legal but effectively back-door access because of the visa status that she has as a Russian citizen, enabling her to get access to Nauru without going through the normal channels. So she was able to move about really freely on the island, something that we've not been able to do for several years. Amnesty International hasn't been able to get into there and as you know journalists are severely restricted in their ability to report on Nauru.
DW: The report contains a lot of very very graphic and horrific situations. A lot of course we've heard about these sorts of stories before but what was the worst thing you think that Anna Neistat found?
GB: Well one particular story really struck home for me and that was the story of an Afghani man whose wife had died, he'd fled the Taliban and he'd fled with two of his boys, his two sons. And they really fled incredibly difficult and dangerous situation and they made an almost unbelievably dangerous journey across the world for him to try to get his two boys to safety so that they could re-start their lives. But it was really the Australian government, their treatment of them as a family that broke him. Our researcher interviewed them; he was terrified to let his two boys out of his sight even because they'd repeatedly tried to self-harm and even kill themselves. And for young teenage boys to be in that position I think any parent would find that particularly devastating to think of how hopeless that situation must be for them.
DW: There doesn't seem to be much movement in the Australian attitudes towards this. What is it that Amnesty would like to see happen as a result of the Island of Despair report?
GB: Well you're right that we've really seen no movement lately from the Australian government. In fact what we've seen from the Australian immigration minister, Dutton, has really just been defensive bluster and he's even accused organisations like Amnesty International of giving false hope to people who are on Nauru right now and really that comes back to what this report is about, which is about the lack of hope there because really the Australian government has taken away all hope that people have. In terms of what needs to happen clearly for the people there what they most need is some hope, hope that there's some end to what's effectively detention there on Nauru and hope that they aren't forgotten and that's really what we're trying to do, we're working very hard on the Australian government but also on other governments. Clearly it's the Australian government's primary responsibility to deal with this, they're the government who put people there. The fastest and fairest thing for them to do would be to bring people back to Australia and to resettle them in the community but unfortunately it doesn't look like the Australian government's going to do the right thing anytime soon and that's really why we're looking at other countries, including New Zealand to put up their hands to help the families who are on Nauru and particularly to get the children out because we know that indefinite detention is so damaging for children.
DW: New Zealand of course has had this long-standing offer to take 150 but hasn't exactly pushed it have they.
GB: So the prime minister has repeated the offer a couple of times this year and the Australian immigration minister has said that he's not opposed to it, it would be a matter for New Zealand and Nauru. But now we're in really this crazy situation where the Australian and New Zealand governments are pushing it back and forth between each other, where the New Zealand government is saying it's got an agreement with Australia, not with Nauru. Putting aside the politics that's been played on this clearly New Zealand could play a part, we have a good refugee resettlement programme here. When the government did its review of the refugee quota just a few months back and just made a very small increase to New Zealand's really tiny refugee intake, it justified it by saying that it wanted to have capacity for taking people in an emergency. Now what this report shows is that we have an emergency right now on Nauru with the people who are there. You just have to look at the stories of people who escaped the horrors of the Taliban for example. Unbelievably difficult and dangerous journeys only to have their spirits broken and all hope taken away by the Australian government. There's an emergency right now and New Zealand could play a positive part in helping people.
DW: Most of the people on Nauru of course now have been found to be genuine refugees. New Zealand really needs to be talking about a lot more than 150 doesn't it.
GB: It certainly does, Amnesty Internationals analysis of New Zealand's refugee intake is that it needs to be much higher than it is now, it needs to be more like 3500 rather than 1000. What we're saying to the New Zealand government is that as a very first and very small step taking the 150 that it's already discussed with the Australian government would be an easy win and that would be enough to get most of the children off Nauru, which really needs to be prioritised. But longer term New Zealand can certainly do more, it can do more in the region to resettle refugees.
