Record numbers of NZers are leaving: Is this the new normal?

New Zealanders are leaving the country in record numbers, the latest figures from Stats NZ show overall migrant arrivals dropped 16% to 138,600, while departures increased 13% to 127,900. Nearly 48 thousand kiwi citizens left this year. Continuing the trend that we've seen over the past two years - with large numbers of New Zealand citizens leaving and fewer migrants arriving. So is this the new normal or just a reflection of current tough times? Sociologist and emeritus professor at Massey University Paul Spoonley joins Jesse.