Judith Collins defiant over survey involvement: 'The Greens are frankly bonkers'

Minister Judith Collins' office was closely involved in rewriting the Public Service Commission's only sectorwide survey, Official Information Act documents show.

The minister said questions she removed around religion, te reo Māori and rainbow identities infringed on people's privacy, or were not relevant to the public service getting on with the job. She also had no problem with adding extra questions about whether the sector delivered value for money.

The Opposition and the Public Service Association union said the changes amounted to censorship, and showed Collins' involvement in operational decisions that play politics with the independent public service.

Collins stood by her actions, saying it showed she was active - and that Labour was not, when it signed off the last such survey.

The Public Service Commission's census was a voluntary survey run over the three weeks to 21 March, its biggest section focusing on productivity in the sector.

It was a follow-up to the initial 2021 survey of the same name, the different areas of focus raising concern about just how involved Collins and predecessor Nicola Willis were in the design phase.

A response to an OIA request showed Collins' office suggested changes including:

• Removing questions about disability, rainbow identities, religion, te reo Māori proficiency levels, on-the-job training and agencies' commitment to the Māori-Crown relationship
• Adding a new question about whether public servants "give excellent value for my salary", "there are instances when I consider my work wastes taxpayers' money" or "I would rate my manager as someone who cares about the effect of my work"
• Removing the 'inclusion' section, moving those questions to the 'integrity and conduct' section, and changing a question about whether agencies support and promote "an inclusive workplace" to instead ask about "a workplace where people are respectful towards one another"

Two of the six te reo Māori questions were eventually removed, but the rest were retained, after it was pointed out the questions aimed to uphold the Māori Language Act 2016 and that the government had asked for agencies to demonstrate allowances for te reo Māori competency were effective.

Questions about sexual orientation, and trans or intersex identities, and whether people were referred to using their preferred pronouns were replaced with a single yes-or-no question about whether people identified as LGBTQUIA+.

The question about religion was retained, after it was pointed out this was a recommendation from the Royal Commission inquiry into the Christchurch terror attacks.

Opposition, PSA union criticises involvement

The Green Party's public service spokesperson Francisco Hernandez also said Collins' close involvement was censorship and showed a "concerning pattern of behaviour".

"It's clear that we've got a minister that's determined to push ahead with her own political agenda at the expense of the public good and this is certainly what's happening in this case," he said.

"We do expect ministers to be able to set the operational direction of their ministries and to have the public service implement the government directives. Where the line is is operational-level decisions and, when the minister is getting involved in literally censoring questions at the question level of a public service census, we have to question where her priorities are.

"It's effectively a form of political censorship where the minister's office is deciding what questions are and aren't allowed to go ahead."

He said several ministers seemed more interested in fighting "the imported culture war, rather than actually trying to govern the country, and this is another manifestation of their kind of attempt to import that Trumpian style of politics".

Labour Party counterpart Camilla Belich said she thought the minister's intervention inappropriate.

"I would expect that this remains separate from the minister and that the survey remains politically neutral, like we would expect generally from the public service.

"Some of what ended up in the survey was against their advice and so that raises questions with the minister for me. I don't think it is a good look for the Minister of the Public Service to be personally drafting questions in what should be a neutral survey that should be an asset to look back on statistically."

The approach showed a "clear political bent", she said.

"I think it is significant and I think it's a real shame that, because of the minister's interference in this particular survey, we don't have the statistical information that would be really useful for making policy decisions in the public service.

"If there's concerns about privacy, there's other ways that she can address that in terms of the way the question is asked and obviously create an option if people don't want to [answer]."

Public Service Association union national secretary Fleur Fitzsimons said this was a case of ministerial overreach that would undermine the dataset over time and should not have occurred.

"It's a statutory role of the Public Service Commission - not the minister - to employ public servants and to monitor their employment conditions, and to make sure that workplaces are inclusive and able to get the best out of people. What we're seeing here is a minister intervening in a survey with loaded questions that are unhelpful, and will not improve employment conditions or the employment environment to public servants.

"She is playing politics with the survey. It is a form of censorship and it's inappropriate overreach from a minister who should be focusing on the issues in her portfolios.

"This is the only information collected directly from public servants by takawa Mata whole and the minister should let them do their job."

Collins cites privacy, relevance concerns

Collins told RNZ the government was focused on delivering results for New Zealand and the sector should be getting on with the job.

"Topics such as gender identity, sexuality and religion, I can't see too many private sector employers getting away with asking people to fill out forms about. Frankly, I don't think most taxpayers think that that's the role of the public service - it's actually a terrible infringement on people's privacy.

"Very happy for people to learn to reo, but is it relevant to know how often they hold conversations in te reo at work? Is that anything to do with the taxpayer?"

She disagreed that it may be useful to track representation of those groups in the sector over time.

"I don't think people should be obliged or feel pressured to answer questions like that," she said.

It should be noted the survey is voluntary.

"I really do think people need to start respecting people's privacy, and stop putting pressure on people to identify as rainbow or not rainbow. What's it got to do with me?

"The answer is nothing. I don't care what people's status is around their sexuality or their religion, and I don't think most people do."

Her addition of value-for-money questions should not be a foreign concept for the Greens, she said.

"I think the Greens are, frankly, bonkers. I mean, how can they find it difficult that the public service should be delivering value for money.

"The Greens can go off on their fine little tangents, but frankly, that's their problem. I think it's very, very important."

She pushed back when told Labour's then-Public Service Minister Chris Hipkins had left the 2021 survey untouched.

"I'm a very active minister, I take my role very seriously," she said. "I can't be responsible, if there's a previous public service minister from the Labour Party that didn't have the wit to have a look at what was going out in his or her name."

Asked where the line should be drawn, she said that, as minister, she could get "very involved" with the Commission.

"My role is to make sure that the taxpayer money is properly spent, and that the Public Service Commission and the public service itself has the tools to get that job done well.

Commissioner had 'final say'

Public Service Commission deputy chief executive Hugo Vitalis said the focus of the census would change each time and align "to shifting priorities within the public service, including what needs to be delivered for the New Zealand public".

He said it was the only channel for collecting this data from public servants.

"The Minister for the Public Service was consulted, which is appropriate, given her portfolio responsibility, as the then-Minister was consulted for the first census in 2021. The Public Service Commissioner made the final call on the questions."

However, it should be noted that final call followed a signoff from the minister, confirming which questions she wanted retained and which she wanted removed, after responses from the Commission's staff. The survey carried out in March reflected the minister's preferences.

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